152: [INTERVIEW] How My Husband and I Have Hard Conversations When We Both Struggle With Communicating Our Feelings

Guess who’s back…back again! The cute blonde boy, aka Lucas my husband, is back on the show today and in today’s chat we are sharing about how we communicate. He and I are two very different people and two different types of communicators, and it’s been a journey to learn how to have our needs met within our marriage in a way that works for both of us. Relationships are hard work but can bring you so much joy when you work together and work to make them work. 

We hope that our chat today will help you grow your communication skills within the relationships in your own life. 

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Transcript

Maddy: 0:01

Hey bestie and welcome to the living in sunshine podcast. I'm your host, Maddy fry. And around here we are all about encouraging, inspiring, and giving you the tough love that you need to hear to get out there and live as your best self. Each and every Wednesday, you can expect to learn tangible tips to help you find your bigger purpose. be given simple action steps that you can take in order to make progress toward your biggest dreams. And hear how you can purposely pursue joy on the daily. So sit down, grab your favorite drink. And let's have a girl chat. This is the living in sunshine podcast. Good morning. Good morning, my friends. And welcome back to the living in sunshine podcast. I am so excited that you're here today because I have a very special friend with me today who was also my husband way long ago, probably back in 2021 2022. Luc was on the podcast and you guys really enjoyed hearing from him. I had my mom on the podcast last year. And so we have Luc back on the show today, Lucas, go ahead and lean in and say hello.

Lucas: 1:07

Hello.

Maddy: 1:08

So we're currently working off of one microphone. So just for context, the audio might be a little bit weird,

Lucas: 1:13

It all started when Maddy made the biggest mistake. because we're both like awkwardly leaning in and out of the of the microphone. So just bear with us we're working on with just one we're working on like the bare minimum because I don't typically have my guests next to me, I typically have them on Zoom. But we are here to just sort of chat about how we communicate as two very different communicators on Instagram. A lot of times I get questions about Lucas and I, our relationship, our marriage, and I have been, you know, for forthcoming about how the last year and a half hasn't been, you know, a walk in the park. But beyond that there hasn't really been much discussion. But I wanted to have Lucas on the show today. So just sort of have like an open conversation about how we communicate and more specifically how we have hard conversations within our marriage because this is a conversation or a question that I've gotten before about how Lucas and I kind of operate within our marriage. So Luc, will you kind of give a back story quick synopsis of our relationship, how we met all those good things, in case anyone tuning in, doesn't know anything about you or us or mucus as we have been so lovingly called as a pair.

Maddy: 2:35

No.

Lucas: 2:36

Yeah, I mean, I think our story starts in a very similar way to how a lot of high school relationships start, we had knowledge of one another because when you're in that environment, you have knowledge of like, you know, depending on your class size, you know, 50 to hundreds of people. And so, you know, we existed in the same environment for over a decade. And you don't do that without knowing at least a little bit about the person.

Maddy: 3:05

Yeah,

Lucas: 3:05

so we had general knowledge of each other, but then starting about pretty close to the end of junior year. Just kind of ended up in the same space within prom, going to that dance with different people, but ended up at the same table with each other just kind of hit it off that night socially and then kind of progressed from there post night. Maddy's date was gay, why they was as interested in to me as I was in men, so not much. Um, but yeah, ultimately resulted in you know, curiosity, turning into kind of mutual attraction turning into something more there. And ultimately, there were, you know, little meet cute kind of things. Maddy had a sign I ripped it. I don't know if that story has been told here at this point. But, ya know, just a lot of kind of, you know, little high school thing is that ultimately resulted in, you know, enough mutual kind of feeling to kind of see where that thing could go. I think it kind of started off with both of us, kind of the idea that like, you know, we're both going off to college and a year like, what's the worst that can happen? So, I think that's where we kind of diverge from most high school relationships and that we didn't end up breaking up going to college, and now we're married and it's been close to 11 year so

Maddy: 4:35

Yeah, by the time this episode comes out, it'll be right around our 11 year anniversary, if not a couple days before or after. Um, but yeah, you have a really nice podcasting voice.

Lucas: 4:47

Thank you.

Maddy: 4:48

Yeah, I I like listening to him in the headphones. He can't hear himself in the headphones but you have a really, it's so smooth. It sounds so good on the microphone.

Lucas: 4:57

I'm glad that it comes across well, because As most pure blooded people go, anytime I hear myself in any kind of recording, I always cringe a little bit and then violently convulse.

Maddy: 5:09

Yeah, well, it sounds really good on the microphone. So send me a DM, if you agree. So yeah, we have been together since we were 17. Started dating, like Luke said, a little after junior prom, went to college together, moved in together after college got married, a year after we moved in together, I think. And so we've done a lot of life, like I just recently turned 29. So we've been together for 11 years, almost. Well, yeah, 11 years, almost exactly what the time this episode comes out. So there has been a lot of life, a lot of growth that has happened individually. And as a couple, if you have been a listener of the show long enough, you know that we as a pair have been through a lot we've been through a pandemic, we've been through living in 900 square feet worth of space. We've been through living in a horror house of just massive issues and things that we've had to grow through as homeowners. What else three different cross country moves with dogs and guinea pigs, job changes, pursuing different dreams, all the different things. And going through that, and like surviving, that is something that like you and I kind of talk about a lot like, why are we as good as we are? And why do we make it through the things that we make it through? Because we've never taken a break? We've never broken up, that's never even been like proposed, there's never been like a moment where I was like, where either of us were like, I think we should break up. And I think that the reason that that is, is because of how we communicate, would you agree?

Lucas: 6:54

I would say so. I mean, I think ultimately, if the question that I mean, I personally asked myself, I don't know how, you know, I don't know how Maddy's internal monologue goes through, and we're having problems I would call, you know, when we're having problems when we're having Spats when we're having anything, ya know, normal, you know, really go through because when you exist within, you know, the same 50 foot radius of another human being, we're all flawed. So yeah, stuff comes up, no matter how good of a relationship you have with someone. I think, ultimately, for me, personally, it's always just a matter of asking the question, is this fight is this issue, like, on the grand scheme of things? What's it worth to me? And most of the time, you know, the answer is, it's worth a pretty serious discussion. And, you know, that's the extent of it. And, you know, there's never been something that we've gone through where I've said, Okay, this is worth a serious look into how, you know, whether this relationship still works. And I think that that's not to say that no one should have that. That's not to say that there aren't, you know, people that aren't situations, you know, you know, someone cheats, someone has, like, you know, Gamble's your life savings away and never told you

Maddy: 8:14

Abusive relationships.

Lucas: 8:15

Exactly. There's nothing that we've ever dealt with. But you know, I think people inherently react to things emotionally because we are emotional creatures by nature. And so it's very easy in those moments to react emotionally, I would say, if you, you know, I'm not saying detach emotion from it. But I just as a personal human being very logical from how my standpoint of how I think through things. And so it's very hard to get me riled up enough to the point where I'm no longer like viewing things from that kind of standpoint. Yeah. And I think for me, if you're like having a He Said, She Said moment, I think for me, I think a lot about energy and energy flow, and where I spend my energy, because I have so much going on all the time, that my energy is capped, like, I only have so much and so when there are issues, whether they're big or small, it's not that I don't care to deal with those issues, but it's that does this little thing that's bothering me warrant, a big blow up? Like does it warrant me being snippy or upset or harboring you know, whatever kind of emotions? Or is it just not worth the energy? Like, is it just not worth the fight? And I've had that I've made that comment to friends and to family before like talking just generally sharing, like, oh, this happened, and this happened. And they're like, Oh, well, I would have said this or I would have done this my natural response is like it's not worth a fight like it's why is that worth getting upset about? Why is that worth poking the bear when it in the end of the day, like it's really not like it's not that deep? But I think the other part of this is that like we have learned a lot about how the other person communicates. And obviously, that comes from being together for so long and maturing and growing together through like our late teens into early adulthood. And we're both, you know, getting closer to 30, which I feel like when you're officially 30, you're like truly an adult, I feel like when you're in your 20s, you're just like, people are like, Oh, you're in your 20s. Like, you're not there yet? Well, you still got time, I feel like we've still like learned certain things about one another. That helps us to broach those hard subjects or to like, be like, hey, it really bothers me that, you know, this isn't happening around the house, or the dogs were left like this, or whatever it might be like, whatever little thing it might be like, I feel like we've learned how to pinpoint those irks and the other person and communicate them in a way that is really reciprocal and really receptive to both of us, right. Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I think that at the, you know, at this point, I think not just between us, but I think with any relationship between two people. Yeah, I think if you're gotten to the point where you're 11 years deep, and you don't know enough about the person to know how they communicate, that's probably in and of itself a good thing to kind of like deep dive into something else. That's not working. Yeah. So like, I think, you know, there's certainly, you know, a level of care that I think you need to go, I think, also a lot of things that something that's lost during fights lost during arguments lost. You know, it's very rare that you get one singular blow up fight that results in an argument or in a breakup. I mean, you get, you know, the small things that compound over time, fester. And usually the things leading to a breakup start months years in advance of it, because people just fester with it. Yeah, I think something you said is that it's a matter of whether it's worth the fight or not, I think, to be devil's advocate to that some things are worth the fight. Because the alternative, that's totally not what Maddy is saying. Maddy is saying, from her point of view of, you know, it's not worth getting upset over to also say that, from someone else's point of view that it could be taking that it might be worth the fight to get it out there because you don't want to fester with it, you can't, you know, thinking to yourself, Oh, this isn't worth it is its own kind of like slow killer to a relationship as well.

Maddy: 12:25

Yeah, totally. And I think something that like, Luc and I specifically within our own marriage, because like I said, we really know, probably a little bit too, personally, for some other relationships out there, which is fine. Um, we have come up with ways to like broach those hard subjects, and have what I like to call adult conversations. And something that Luc brought up a couple of weeks ago was like, hey, like, nothing is wrong. But like, can we have a powwow? And he knows for me, like, I get really bent out of shape, I get very nervous, like sick to my stomach anxious when the words we need to have a talk are brought up. Because I immediately feel like I'm in trouble. Whether it's within our relationship or a professional relationship, anytime anyone ever says like, Hey, can we can can you come here? Can we have a talk? My first my knee jerk reaction is to say, am I in trouble? Because if so, I'm not having this conversation with you like, I will avoid it as much as possible. And so he knows that about me. And he has changed that phrase for like, when it's something silly, like, I don't know, the dishes aren't getting done, or we're spending money when we shouldn't be spending money or something with the dog, like whatever it might be, like silly little things that like, at the end of the day really aren't the end of the world, right? Or something to like, have a really big conversation about, we have changed that verbiage to just say like, Hey, like, can we have a powwow about this? And it allows me at least to come at it, knowing that like, he's not angry, there's something bothering him, but like, he doesn't want the need to have this conversation upset me. Does that make sense? I feel like that makes sense.

Lucas: 14:06

Yeah, no, it makes sense. I mean, that's where I come from with that is like, you know, it's go it harkens back to what you said earlier about understanding how the other one likes to needs to communicate. So if you know the way that the person needs to communicate, if you understand what works for them and what doesn't, you know, it makes having those conversations a lot easier. It makes communicating a lot easier. Because, you know, another thing that happens in fights in Spats in rough periods is as much about what you don't say as much as what you do. So yeah, if you know how to get the other person to level out and talk with you, rather than hold it in, then there's, you know, a lot to be said about how that works as well.

Maddy: 14:59

Yeah. So then I think it begs the the conversation is like, how do we broach those hard conversations? Because we've had a lot of them over the last couple of years. And as you would in any healthy long term relationship, like there's going to be tough conversations that need to be hard. I guess my question is, is like, can we share? Are you comfortable sharing how you take care of yourself in those situations to open up and have that conversation because I know that there are things that I do that help get through those things as like two people who communicate very differently. I am the kind of person and I've had like personality quizzes and human design things, you know, tests taken, you know, to help me figure this out. But like, verbally communicating my feelings is extremely difficult. For me, it's a trauma response. It's something I'm working on with Mary and therapy. And so literally, and maybe somebody else is like this, if you're also like this, let me know, send me a message on Instagram. But like, it pains me physically and emotionally, mentally, all the things to like, verbalize how I feel, I have to be really, really, really pushed to the edge to be able to communicate that. But there are ways that I have learned that helped me to communicate my feelings. One of them being texting and having our conversations over text. And I've shared this with friends before about having like hard conversations and like, here's what we do in our marriage, what do you do in your marriage kind of thing. And we have sometimes big conversations big, heavy, hard conversations over text message, because, and I know that that sounds crazy to some people, some people will be like, Oh my god, I would never. But it's the only way that I can talk it out and say what I need to say without breaking down emotionally like looking at him. Because if you sit in front of me and and I have to say what I'm saying via text message, like I emotionally can't get the words out, they like stick in the back of my throat and don't move. And then I'm crying and I'm emotional. And then nothing gets done. And everyone feels awkward and uncomfortable. So that's, that's at least how I like to communicate. But I'm curious if you can share for anyone who's like sharing this episode with a partner or listening and wants to turn around and share it with a partner, whatever it might be like, how do you take care of yourself in those hard conversations? Because I know that you communicate very differently than I do.

Lucas: 17:18

Yeah, I mean, I'm also going to preface this by saying like anyone like listening to this right now, like there's not really there's not a script we're working off of also, I have no idea what any of these questions were going ahead. Like this is all just like off the RIP.

Maddy: 17:33

I blindsided him

Lucas: 17:34

off the RIP kind of like first impressions kind of things. So you know, as to be taken with the caveat of everyone communicates differently. Everyone protects compartmentalizes differently. What works for someone doesn't work for the other person. As an example, you know, I don't like having big conversations over text. But I know that that works for Maddy. And so you know, harkens back to what I said earlier about how logically looking into this logic, if you're going into that, do I want to a have this conversation over text or b not have this conversation at all because I know that's how it's going to work for Maddy than I have it over text because it doesn't work. What the if there's one thing I would say someone listening to this from a partner's perspective should take from this. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean that it shouldn't work. Like if it doesn't work for you. And it is a stopgap enough to where it's like this like actually pains me actually like hurts me emotionally to do Sure, don't do it. But if it's like a matter of Maddy likes to have these conversations over text, and I don't like it, but I don't like it to a point of like, it's like not my favorite not it's like an actual stopgap to having it. It's just, it's a matter of understanding that, you know, just because you don't like something doesn't mean that it shouldn't be used at all, like I'm not, you know, and ultimately, you know, that's a different rabbit hole to go down. But I would say you know, as far as it goes for how do I not protect myself but like generally how I prep myself to have like those kinds of conversations. Ultimately, I would say my personality type is I'm very much kind of a person that takes kind of a backseat kind of takes a secondary kind of role. And a lot of the relationships in my life I would say not just from my relationship with Maddy, but my relationship with my friends I'm very much less so the driver of things more so kind of the ride along when it comes to family. You know, I do things that other people plan but it's not like I'm not the one like waving out in front of the barnyard. Let's have our big ol Ohio family cookout. Like I very much I try to be a supporter of the people around me rather than a driver of the people around me. And so when I go into those kinds of conversations, like the first and forefront thing in my mind, on top, just besides the fact that I'm like thinking about logically, constantly, like, Don't get emotional about this unless it deserves a motion is Maddy is the number one in this conversation. I know like, and that's in that's not to say that is a bad thing. Because I, you know, that's the way things work for us. Maddy is very much kind of, I think the kind of person that kind of needs to be thought of the most in those kinds of conversations between the two of us not to say like every conversation that he has ever in her life, she needs to be number one between two people. But between the two of us, when we're having those kinds of conversations, I very much look at it from the point of view of Maddy's, my number one priority. And this because, you know, I'm not saying my needs are secondary. But as far as what needs to be said here, what I need in this moment needs to be secondary to Maddy, because I know that that's the way that things generally tend to get resolved best tend to get worked through best. And so with that in mind, you know, that's not to say that my issues don't get solved, but they get solved second.

Maddy: 21:25

get solved. And this goes this, I think this goes back to a lot of awareness of self, but also awareness of your partner. Because I'm a processor, I need time to marinate. And sometimes there have been things brought to my attention that I was not even aware of were points of contention and, and tough spots in our relationship. And when they were first brought to my attention, I reacted super Emotionally, I am a very emotional person. And it took me a couple of weeks to like, really sit in what was said and be like, Oh, I actually see what he says like, I see what he means, like I am wrong. This situation like I agree. So I think that the problem, the issues always get solved. The order of operations always looks a little bit different. And that is something and let me just add this, like, yes, what Luc said is true. But the other thing is, is like that is something that I am working on. And it's not something that I, you know, love to hear, right? Like everything, we always want to be an equal partner. And I do believe that we are an equal partnership. But there is some truth in what he says, right. And it's one of those things that like I am actively working on as an individual to become a more equal partner in this relationship. When it comes to having these types of conversations,

Lucas: 22:58

I will say striving for equilibrium, where everything is, you know, 5050, I think is the healthiest route to go. Like in a relationship, I think striving for 5050 is the way to go. Yeah, it's never gonna fucking happen. No, it's never gonna happen. Because you are never ever, both partners for the entirety of a relationship are never going to feel like it's 5050 like 100% of the way through. I think the key to that, then is to strive for 5050. Yeah, if you feel like you're taking more the emotional bandwidth start to give a little bit more, if you feel like you're giving a lot and the other person doesn't seem like they're willing to give more have the conversation that you need to give more like, yeah, in general, I know that in those moments, I can give Maddy top billing top priority, because I know that she will come back to me as she said, she'll marinate on it, she's a processor, she will then come back to me. And then I will be the priority after that. Like it's like in the not contentious moments, but in those like serious moments. I know that Maddy is number one, because the caveat to that is I know that she will process through that. And then my needs will be the top building after that kind of spread out over time. I think you need to really understand that. In those moments, parity is impossible, you have to be understanding what the other person means you have to be understanding of what you are giving and taking in that moment. And strive for parity, while also understanding that sometimes you need to take 80% of the bandwidth. And if you need to take all of it, then take all of it because that's what you need them but no one knows what you need more than you. Yeah. And that's the work like people say all the time. And this is this is a saying that we heard for a long, long time and we hear all the time that marriage is a lot of work. And I can't speak for us I can only speak for me but I didn't really know what that meant until the last 18 months that marriage was work and I think that finding that that Balance and working towards that balance is the work that people are talking about when they say, marriage is a lot of work, because you have to work in a partnership, but also as an individual to find that balance and be an equal partner in a marriage or a long term relationship. Like if marriage is not your thing, and you're in a long term committed relationship. Like I feel like all this is still applicable. And I think that that's, I'm glad that you said that, because I think that that's really what that phrase means is like, it's not you're not It's not physical work, right. It's not any kind of specific work, but like, it's the work of finding that balance and finding that equal oneness between both of you in a marriage. So, yeah, I think, I think I, for the most part, understood going into it the like, general concept of marriage is a lot of work. Like you wouldn't say like, as people we're not, you know, people's beliefs, people's thinking vary wildly from person to person. But at base at core, we're not all all that different from each other. Yeah. So to see that, like, divorce rates are somewhere around like, I don't know, 5050, because I don't really know exactly what they are nowadays, like, divorce rates wouldn't be 5050, if it wasn't a lot of work, because like, you look at it from someone's point of view, like, oh, that just didn't work for them, like they didn't have it down, like we have it down. I think if you think that you're not delusional, because that's a mean word that I wouldn't say about someone. But I think if you think that you are in a relationship that is so like top of the mountain top top of the throne compared to other people's relationship, you are setting yourself up for a far deeper fall than you might realize in that moment, because we're not all that fucking different from each other. Like, relationships vary also wildly from person to person to person, but human beings, we are not all that different. So when you get to the point, like for some relationships, it takes a year for some relationships, it takes a couple of months for our relationship, you know, it took almost a decade. But you eventually hit the point where you're going to realize that there are differences in thinking differences and mindset, personality emotion this that the other XYZ tires, all these things. Yeah, exactly. And I think the work part when people say marriage is a lot of work, is people at base, I think, want to be looking out for themselves the most

Maddy: 27:36

totally

Lucas: 27:37

peep and that's not to say you shouldn't either I'm like people at base one themselves to be cared for, as a top billing as a top priority, I think you will eventually hit the equilibrium with your partner where there are enough differences, not necessarily stacked up but enough things between two people where it's like, people see themselves potentially no longer as the number one thing stack up could be in different relationships, kids death in the family, loss of job, this, that and the other or whatever, eventually you compile enough life that things just kind of spark, I would say, yeah. And so I think the work part of that comes when that part of your relationship, that's when you start to have to roll with the idea that basically, this, like this partnership between two people, it's going to have to evolve, essentially, like, I think you eventually hit the point where things need to evolve. And it's not one time either it's one time it's too time for me and Maddy was going from high school to college, then college, still our adulthood, and then we had to move all over the country, and then all these things started happening, and then yada, yada, yada, like our relationship has had to evolve, like four or five times point. And like the fifth evolution, we've seen that there are things between us that need to have those serious conversations. Yeah, it is those kinds of breakpoints, eventually where that work starts. And people need to be able to be really comfortable with the idea of changing as a couple rather than changing as an individual. When you get the point where you're changing as an individual and the other person is no longer willing to change. That's where you get things like divorce breaking up this that. And the work part of that is being willing to change when you don't necessarily want to change. And so you know, I think that for me personally, the reason that things also work is because I can't speak for Maddy but there's never been a time where I haven't been willing to change. Yeah, no, yeah, this most recent tasks, there's been things that I would say like had been hard for me to say Ah, but that is not to say it was an unwillingness. So

Maddy: 30:04

yeah, or a lack of wanting to change in order to make it work, like we have said multiple times to each other like, this is a game, we will not lose, like we are not, we're not taking an L on this at all, like, it's, it is not an option, like something completely catastrophic, would have to have happen for us to no longer be a pair like, and again, like this is this is so subjective. And this is non prescriptive, like, this is not us being like, if you do this, you're gonna live happily ever after. Like, that's not the point of this at all. But the point of this is to just show like, you can have different communication needs and strengths and weaknesses from your partner and still have a really good relationship, whether it's romantic or not, yes, there are some contingencies to that, but as long as you're willing to like, work through those contingencies, like you will, you will be good and your, your relationship will thrive because of that, and as long as your partner is in it with you, like it's, it's, it's a good time.

Lucas: 31:15

Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, it should be a good time. Like, you should still be waking up next to the other person, happy that you're in this relationship. Yeah, loving that person, whatever love that, like, whatever form of love that takes

Maddy: 31:32

in that season that it takes, right, because we've all had seasons, where we look at our partner, we're like, I love you. But I'm really angry with you right now. Or I'm really sad about you right now, or I'm really upset with you, or whatever it might be.

Lucas: 31:41

Exactly. So like, I think I would sit once again, caveat by saying like, there is nothing in either of our backgrounds that involves couples, counseling, couples, science of any kind of sort. So like, you can be listening, this is 100% talking from personal beliefs and things that have worked for us. Yeah. So if you're listening to this, and being like, this is a load of barnacles. That's entirely fair, because what works for us might not work for you.

Maddy: 32:10

Yeah. And that's okay. And that's okay. Like I say, all the time on the show, take it, bake it and make it your own. Like, you have to just take what you hear on the show or on Instagram, or Tiktok, or wherever, like with a huge grain of salt and make it work for your own life. But I thought it might be fun to have Luc on the show. I had mentioned a couple of times that we are, you know, in a growing season in our marriage, and so I thought it would be fun to have him on and sort of share some insight on that from his point of view as well. But all all things are good. I think we're in a really good spot. And we're gonna keep on moving forward. Yeah,

Lucas: 32:46

yeah, I mean, end of the day, Maddy, still the love of my life. I still look at her every morning and think how lucky I am. I still think back to 11 years ago when she made the worst mistake of her,

Maddy: 32:57

buddy.

Lucas: 32:58

But like, you know, that's important. That is definitely important to still feel that way. Like partnerships work and evolve. And sometimes partnerships turn into just that partnerships. Yeah, love can be familial, love, different kinds of love. I think, you know, end of the day, if you take one thing away, it's that you know, what works now won't always work. And you need to be willing to change and evolve not just for your partner, but for yourself.

Maddy: 33:29

Yeah. Nothing new here, people. Well, thank you so much for listening. We hope this was helpful in some way, shape, or form. If you loved today's brand new episode, be sure to take a screenshot, share it over on Instagram and tag me at living in sunshine and share it with a partner, a friend, a sister, a mother, anyone like that. And until next week, we are sending you all the sunshine good vibes, and we hope you make it a great day.

Lucas: 33:54

Is this when I plug my socials?

Maddy: 33:56

Yes.

Lucas: 33:56

I don't have any socials. You can't follow me.

Maddy: 33:59

He's off the grid, but that's okay. All right, you guys. Happy Wednesday. And we hope you guys make it a great day. Say bye Lucas

Lucas: 34:05

bye Lucas.

Maddy: 34:07

Girlfriend. Thank you so much for listening to today's new episode. If you loved it, please send it to a friend share it on Instagram and tag me so I can see and consider leaving the show a rating or a review. Ratings and reviews are kind of like sharing or liking a post on Instagram, and they really help the show grow and reach new women just like you. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss a new episode. And until next week, I am sending you all the sunshine, good vibes. And I hope you make it a great day.